EPR (Extended Producer Responsibility)
Summary: A discussion about the Extended Producer Responsibility (REP) program included criticism regarding the cost and perceived inefficiency of the system. mustang_f expressed concerns about the financial burden on small vendors and questioned the profitability and effectiveness of the organization overseeing it. The introduction of the Packaging and Packaging Waste Regulation (PPWR) was also mentioned, which aims to standardize packaging rules across the EU, adding potential complexity for producers needing to register in multiple states.
Hello everyone.
I just got in touch with Adelphe about the EPR. For information, the annual fee is €80 excl. tax for fewer than 10,000 packaged items. And wham....
So, while yet another tax or the like is being dumped on us, that’s hardly surprising. On the other hand, what bothers me most of all is that the packaging I use, cardboard boxes, are all collected by me from local merchants’ waste bins. In short, I recycle waste that has already been taxed once by merchants. So if one of these boxes has been used 10 times in a row, the State will levy its tax on it 10 times. Is that normal? To me it isn’t. This principle of repeated taxation has an illegal character.
Moreover, it seems that this only concerns professional sellers, so a good reason to remain under the status of private seller, especially in a context where month after month we can’t even manage to earn a minimum wage.
lezoltan
·1 year agoI’ve stopped all recycling, private or professional, I couldn’t care less anymore.... as an individual you pay, as a business you pay, for our trash we pay, for eco-contributions we pay, and now these organizations like Leko and others where the only button on the site is "Join" and they ask for your email without giving any prices or anything, and you get payment reminders because they say you signed up just by entering your email!!
And if you don’t join one of these official thieves, you can no longer do your job or you get fines more expensive than drug dealers .....
I can’t wait for my business to make enough revenue for me to get out of this country of thieves
cmmang-0
·1 year agoHello Eliot, we are so much in the same situation, don't forget to mention that rummaging through a recycling bin takes a lot of time, costs gas, and is not without health risks....and yet we are treated like cows because it's simply very easy to exploit us......I also don't see the point of switching to professional seller when for a large number of self-employed people the income remains around pocket money, while the legal obligations become more than threatening and complex from all sides(REP in France and...in all other countries if you sell abroad, URSSAF, possible taxes in years of good sales, mandatory business bank account...professional insurance and so on...) but incredibly, become professional. and the taxes and fees of sales platforms explode, then you are automatically listed via the sales platforms, with companies like Citeo and other accomplices.....finally, I see the time coming when these companies that issue a REP number will pressure to forbid self-employed people access to the cardboard bins of stores (as is already the case in waste collection centers).....It is obvious that the vast majority of online sellers, self-employed or otherwise, use recovered cardboard and should not pay these taxes, with a declaration of origin and below an income threshold, but in that case these unscrupulous associations that have become millionaires since REP would see their revenues shrink considerably and they know it very well.....so we must expect in the years to come to be banned from recovering from the bins by some new decree under a fallacious pretext like "it's bad for the health of the people who recover"....
jano.630
·1 year agoHello ,
I confirm ... scam
here recycling ends up like the rest, too, that is to say in the incinerator ............
store-of-collectors
·2 years agoVia the Internet, you need to contact the fraud investigation office and explain the issue regarding the tax charged several times on the same product (recycled packaging carton), they will be able to reply to you.
cmmang-0
·1 year agoWhat did they reply to you, sir? What can they reply if not "can you prove that your boxes come from salvage?" or "do you know that it is forbidden to take cardboard packaging from a salvage dumpster because you are stealing the property of the recycling company?" these last comments written completely at random....everyone is free to consult the legal articles on this subject.
frelonverre
·1 year ago@cmmang-0
you can already officiate on a site that's less coercive than eBay and then I'll pick up my boxes from an auto center that's pretty happy about that because, as professionals, they pay for the landfill
3cbroc
·3 years agoyes I’m going to contact them because I didn’t really understand much apart from the fact that it’s mandatory
3cbroc
·3 years agoHello, I'm bumping this topic and I totally agree with you. I joined citéo despite using 95% reused packaging ...
On the phone, the lady explained to me that 1 parcel = 1 UVC, however when I skimmed the 87-page contract with appendices it seemed much more complex (or maybe I didn't understand anything, which is possible). Has anyone read it and understood it, should we simply stick with 1 parcel = 1 UVC ?
And I just received an additional requirement concerning the prevention plan over 5 years, does that ring a bell ? I feel totally overwhelmed and lost
francexpressdeal
·3 years agoGood evening @3cbroc
regarding UVCs, it depends on the type of items you sell. It’s mainly food products that may require a specific calculation of the number of UVCs. If you have any doubt, ask Citéo.
For the prevention plan, that is indeed another obligation we can’t get around. On this point, everything is very well explained on Citéo to help you draw up this plan.
suret-canale
·3 years agofrancexpressdeal
·3 years ago@suret-canale
Based on your sales, you would only need to join one eco-organization that manages the Household Packaging REP scheme.
Citéo offers an annual flat rate of 80 euros excl. tax (i.e. 96 incl. tax) if you sell fewer than 10,000 SKUs per year.
See this link:
https://www.citeo.com/pourquoi-adherer-citeo#emballages
cmmang-0
·1 year agoIt is indeed an easy form of racketeering that applies to all the easily exploitable "suckers" who use online sales platforms....because these taxes do not apply to other merchants who sell through other channels such as advertising (instagram...etc) and who only need to be contacted to place an order. there used to be the REP at 80 euros (96 euros incl. VAT...) now there is its little sister "tax on all the paperwork you produce, business cards for your business, sales stickers you print to stick on the parcel...etc ) you have to be kidding me! We understand the state's strategy better after the creation of self-employed businesses.... "Get all these small sellers, who make ridiculous profits, out of local markets where they exist anonymously or almost anonymously, to get them to join online sales platforms, by promising a boom in their sales, free at first then ...paid after a few years, when profits will be almost as low anyway, then tax all these **bleep** who will oppose no resistance at the risk of losing their little business and their dreams of huge profits by selling old junk that nobody in the world actually wants, and even if the suckers leave the sales platforms, it's too late because they will have already joined one of these profiteering-from-poverty organizations that you call mafias like CITEO and the sucker-small-entrepreneur will be awarded a REP number FOR LIFE that will track you even if you stop selling via online sales platforms. The millions of small self-employed workers are such appetizing targets, so unprepared, isolated and with such poor legal and business knowledge that they are ideal for quickly siphoning off millions without any risk of rebellion.....and woe betide anyone who challenges the annual payment, which over time is padded with other taxes, because companies like CITEO do not hesitate to threaten you with formal notice....
francexpressdeal
·1 year agoGood evening @cmmang-0
a few clarifications following your comments:
"there was the REP at 80 euros (96 euros incl. VAT...)now there is its little sister "tax on all paper"
The graphic paper REP has existed since 2007. So it is not a new thing. What is new, however, is that it merged with the packaging REP on January 1, 2024.
"these unscrupulous associations that have become millionaires thanks to the REP"
Citéo, like the other eco-organizations, are non-profit companies...
And as for the fact that you use recovered packaging, it doesn't matter since you must in any case declare the packaging "whatever their method of collection".
See this Citéo video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVhVt7HZgeo
"finally, I can see the time coming when these companies that issue a REP number will put pressure on to forbid self-employed workers access to store cardboard bins (as is already the case in waste collection centers)",
For the reasons mentioned above, that is not likely to happen...
cmmang-0
·1 year ago"Citéo, like the other eco-organizations, are non-profit companies..."
As everyone knows, these non-profit companies have indirect ways of making their financial health benefit the elected officials of their choice, as any member of a French association can see. Moreover, the influence their leaders gain, politically or in their professional careers, should be taken into account.
mustang_f
·3 months agoyes I agree with you...I did a little calculation, let's say that if small sellers in self-employment in e-commerce are 5 million...at 112 euros in annual contribution for the packaging eco-fee we end up with 1/2 a billion euros collected by Citeo. I looked at the staff of this outfit, around 500 people, so yes it is non-profit but I can easily imagine that their managers are on very comfortable annual salaries. for me that is pure and simple parasitism. After that, like European Union civil servants, these people have to be kept busy, so they spend their day inventing new constraints disguised as ecological improvements that make life miserable for self-employed people. I also saw that Citeo was heavily criticized for its actual effectiveness in recycling. in short all this is still pseudo-civil-servant jobs funded by skimming off the real economy
francexpressdeal
·3 months agoHello @mustang_f
not to mention that starting August 12, 2026, the PPWR will apply:
Packaging and packaging waste regulation | Seller Hub
In summary:
"The European regulation on packaging and packaging waste (Packaging and Packaging Waste Regulation – PPWR) aims to harmonize the rules applicable to packaging and packaging waste throughout the European Union."
"You must register in each Member State of the European Union where you sell and in which you are considered a packaging producer. Since producer status is determined country by country, you may therefore be considered a producer in some Member States but not in others."
mustang_f
·3 months agoyes it's hopeless of course, joining all the eco-organizations is going to cost a fortune for small self-employed people, with no guarantee of ever making back this new burden. personally I would only sell in France now. in fact the European Union is waging war on independents, it's true for farmers, for us ... we’ve had to deal with the REP, the revenue verification process (with eBay completely washing its hands of it) and now these environmental scams, soon electronic invoicing... I'm not far from retirement and I would be happy to close my business, really fed up with all these parasites who are sinking the economy. I've lost 50 to 70% of turnover compared to 5 years ago, eBay no longer works and every day new constraints keep popping up. I only sell second-hand goods, I pick up my boxes from the street, there is nothing more ecological and I still have to fatten up all these makers of regulations and absurd standards
laurentc8917
·3 years agoHello, and yes, another one again! , like you I recycle my packaging, but anyway !!!!
As for me, I’m a reseller in several categories (DIY, electronics, paints, etc)
Will one number be enough for me, or will I need a number per category, so several subscriptions?
For this famous number, where should I go? After several searches, as usual, it’s the road of hardships
Thanks for your answers !
francexpressdeal
·3 years agoHello @laurentc8917
if you sell items covered by existing EPR schemes, you must join each eco-organization that manages those schemes.
So you will have 1 distinct IDU per scheme.
Start by looking at this eBay help link:
https://www.ebay.fr/help/selling/selling/selling-internationally/extended-producer-responsibility-business-sellers?id=5314&st=3&pos=1&query=Responsabilit%C3%A9%20%C3%A9largie%20du%20producteur%20pour%20les%20vendeurs%20professionnels%20mettant%20des%20objets%20en%20vente%20sur%20eBay.fr&intent=rep&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1691
cmmang-0
·1 year agoOh yes, Laurent, you’re in hell there, but don’t worry: contact one of those companies that issue a lifelong REP number and they’ll be very happy to guide you toward the cheapest option, and you’ll be so reassured and happy to only pay 80 euros (96 euros incl. VAT) that you’ll sign up blindfolded....without knowing that even if you later leave online sales, companies like CITEO will still bill you for your annual membership; in the meantime, of course, eBay and other selling platforms will be firm in reminding you that this item requires a specific declaration or it will disappear from your listing.......etc and you’ll still have to pay something or risk seeing your items banned from eBay for REP non-compliance, even if initially the nice lady at CITEO or some other business of the same kind claiming to be environmental associations, had told you that you wouldn’t have anything else to pay....